S03E12 Transcript: Blair Imani on Online Learning

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Gemma Styles [00:00:01] Hello, I'm Gemma and welcome to another episode of Good Influence. This is the podcast where each week you and I meet a guest who helps us pay attention to something we should know about as well as answering some of your questions. This week we're talking about online learning: how education content on social media has evolved in recent years. Being placed on a pedestal as a person with a platform and how to make sure the information we're sharing is reliable. So joining me this week is Blair Imani. Blair is an author, historian, activist and educator. You might know her best from online video series Smarter in Seconds. Since 2020 Blair has used this series to educate viewers on topics ranging from cultural appropriation to gender expression and far beyond. Her latest book, Read This To Get Smarter, aims to help readers become more informed, socially conscious people and covers topics including race, class, gender and disability.

Blair Imani [00:00:59] I try to strike this balance of having experts so people who understand the history and know the history, but who also have the lived experience. So if I'm working with somebody who's an expert on gender and sexuality, I also would love to work with somebody who's an expert on gender and sexuality and is also trans or gender queer. Who has that lived experience?

Gemma Styles [00:01:17] So tell us a bit about you and how your journey kind of brought you to educating people online.

Blair Imani [00:01:24] Well, it's just, you know, a pleasure to see and speak to you outside of Instagram.

Gemma Styles [00:01:28] So let's you, too.

Blair Imani [00:01:29] I think that my path brought me to like online education through Instagram. I, I really believe that, like the things that we were made fun of for growing up are the things that allow us to, like, stand out in society. Because that's really what bullying is, is like pointing out the things that in this really malicious way, it's not to like under, you know, emphasise that, but it's really pointing out those things in life that make us stand out from the crowd and those things that we can't suppress, whether it's our mannerisms or the way that we speak or the fact that we speak too much in my case. So I was always made fun of for being too talkative. And like I used to just walk around with like library books and like read limericks and like little fun facts. And so it really aligns like who I am today and what I do online in all types of ways. Like I'm just kind of this open book of little fun facts and titbits, and I really enjoy what I do now. But I went viral like so many other black women did in 2020, and when people had this increased interest in awareness around racism and anti-racist education. And so it was kind of a tragedy that, you know, the murder of George Floyd happened, and then there was suddenly this interest from people. But I've decided to view it as like, you know, I'm honoured that I was able to be and continue to be a resource for people in their anti-racist journeys, regardless of how they got their start, while simultaneously rejecting the idea that like somebody like George Floyd had to die for this to happen because that's not true.

Gemma Styles [00:02:57] Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, you're talking about racism, though, and that's sort of how your platform grew. But that's just one of the topics that you cover. How did you how did Smarter and seconds come about and you know how? Tell us a bit about that.

Blair Imani [00:03:15] Oh, definitely. I mean, let me first say that. Like when I say that's how the platform grew, I had built 50,000 followers over a period of five years on Instagram. The next day after I had like run my mouth about what I said, it was this might, you know, strike a chord, especially for like the British listeners. But when people were talking about looting and museums and everything, I was like, Oh, is it looting and robbery? How we got most of our great stuff into the different museums? Are we going to give the stuff back now? So I started running my mouth about these things and at this point I was losing my wits and I was just running my mouth. I woke up the next day, I had 100,000 followers, more than I didn't like it more than the next day. I had 100,000 followers more than the day before because people were putting me on all these lists. And so I had basically gotten back into my education mode. I was doing all kind of in-person, and it took me a little while to transition that into online. And so I started with something called Learn o'clock. Clearly, I love time. I'm a historian. So is Learn a Clock. It was really cute. It was all like text based. And when I started to notice how infographics or something that people were getting really sick of that didn't really like peak until 2021. But in 2020 I was like, This isn't going to last forever. I should pivot to video like so many news agents have. And so I was like, okay, let me shift. I'm going to go ahead and move forward with video. And when it came just harder in seconds, I was sat there trying to figure out how I could use Instagram reels because by that time I'd gotten signed by an agency and with digital brand architects in the States. And I was like, we had this whole meeting about, okay, reels is coming out, we're here for Instagram, we're going to talk to you about reels and everything. And I was like, Okay, cool. I'm not going to like, dance, like to music. I'm not going to do my makeup on screen. I'm doing makeup onscreen increasingly now. But it just didn't feel like, oh, my gosh, how can I fit into this? Like, I'm around Peg, this is a square hole. What's going to do it? You know? But I'm really good at talking bass and I'm really good at, you know, little like those things I got made fun of for growing up, like I would say. And so I'm looking at the couch where I first filmed the first murder in seconds, and it was just little things, like it was 15 seconds back then. Okay, well, what can I say about black versus African-American? What can I say about why we're learning about pronouns? What can I say about these different things? When it got close to 30 seconds, I was like, Okay, now we can do more. Then it got pushed to a minute, okay, now I can add sketches. So my fiancee, Akeem, who's acting actually in the UK, was like, Babe, why don't you start using sets? Because before that I had been filming everything against my, like, black wardrobe and so a brown wardrobe. And I was like, No, babe, it's great the way it is. And he was like, You should evolve it. And I think that's like the really healthy thing is whenever you work on something to bring somebody in, to help you grow, to help you encourage, because you might have a vision in your mind's eye or you might have an idea of what's working perfectly. But you have to have people who are going to push you to take it further, to do more. And so now it's a full on production. Like, I feel like every time I make a video it's a small movie and it's really cool. Like I log on in the morning and I see somebody posted it in German and somebody posted it in Dutch. Like, it's really cool to see it go international with just a small mission of helping people understand things in the inner world, but synthesising it down to those eureka moments instead of having it having to be a TEDTalk.

Gemma Styles [00:06:41] Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting you kind of talking about how the sort of infographic based learning got to sort of a saturation point. Is that kind of in the time that you've been doing that series, is that the biggest change that you've seen going from sort of infographics to video? Like, what can you tell yet? Is it going to go somewhere else next? Or what's the what's the feeling?

Blair Imani [00:07:08] So it's really interesting because so I've been doing infographic based education since 2014. I had a non-profit called Equality for Her, and I now work with feminist and we're basically going to be transitioning equality for her, which is what I founded back in 2014. I was going to have it as a student organisation and we already had a feminist organisation on the campus that I went to university. So I was like, Well, I guess I have to start a non-profit. I don't know how old I was, but I was young, I think 21. And so it was just really ironic in that way. And so now we're turning that to feminist edu and trying to figure out ways that we can continue to create education. But as far as the shifts, like I went viral on Tumblr back when Tumblr was a thing in 2014 for making this Women's History Month series. And that Women's History Month series actually ended up being my book, Modern Herstory. Let me go grab it so I can just show you really quick. Oh, yeah. I can also send you up, even though it's quite American centric. So it became this book, Modern Herstory. That's me on the front. And the illustrator, Monique there, we got my Johnson, you know, greats like Issa Rae. So I kept doing these infographics and I was like, okay, well, memes are being really popular in 2014, like, increasingly so. So how can we use memes to educate? And I at that point I was like, okay, if we could use means to educate, we have to have little titbits in there. And I made graphics, I had this little graphic design book and my teacher in high school, Mr. Walker, actually taught me all about graphic design. And we used to play this game of like Pictionary where we would draw things on the whiteboard and we have to figure out what is the the least amount of lines you can use to communicate the idea. And so I did lessons on like World Mental Health Day where I would have like the earth melt into like a brain. So that looked like, okay, now we're really I'm like, how can I, like, communicate these ideas? I did this graphic on how to respect and honour trans folks, like whether it was people's pronouns or gender identity. And I was like, okay, it holds up from 2015, all right? I knew my stuff. And so I feel like I was like, on the cutting edge of infographics is education. I also worked at a fair housing organisation back in the day where I would take these white paper studies that talked about something that is really recently coming out, which is, you know, housing discrimination, especially in the states where there was a white black professor whose house got appraised for $300,000 less than he did when there was a white man who stood in for him. So I did a little infographics about that stuff.

Gemma Styles [00:09:42] I read an article about to make.

Blair Imani [00:09:44] It more approachable.

Gemma Styles [00:09:44] Yeah, I remember that story.

Blair Imani [00:09:46] Oh, yeah, it's super common in the U.S. and I'm glad that it's getting more notice. And so I feel like I was an old hand, like infographics, you know? But it really could be like a PowerPoint for some people. And so I. Think that during that time people thought podcasts were played out and not working anymore. So I don't think infographics will ever go away, but I think it comes in waves. Like when everybody is on the cutting edge and everybody's doing it, then it starts feeling like, Oh, this isn't this is all right. We saw this with the video game market. We see this with the dot com boom like it happens in waves. So I don't think that if somebody does infographics, it's never going to stop. We have folks like Matt Bernstein who do infographics really, really well, who helped get that horrible misogynist, whose name I'm not going to even say banned from different platforms. Right. Yeah. And so I think video is a next step. And I think that that's going to turn to animation. I'm actually turning smarter and seconds into an animated series. So we're going to be doing one episode to kind of pilot it, see how it goes with my team at Holland. That's fun. Oh, I'm really pleased about it. But I've also seen like there's this like queer chameleon that talks about like gender and stuff. It's just it's a little animated chameleon. So I think that's the next phase is animation. And then I think from there it's just going to be like, who stands out? Because we can have all these different methods and mediums, but it's not really about what the trend is. It's about what you excel at and how you adapt. So I think that like, I just really I don't want people to get discouraged, like, oh man, I had this infographic series I was going to post, but those aren't really popping anymore. If you're making it, then it should be popping because, you know, you always have to bring your unique angle to the discussion. But also look at the tools that are available and then find those tools that fit with your passion and move forward from there.

Gemma Styles [00:11:29] Yeah, I mean, the animation thing sounds very interesting. As someone who's very into animated TV shows even, I'm like, Yes, bring on that kind of learning. That sounds great to me.

Blair Imani [00:11:40] Oh, yeah, no, I'm actually really pleased because. So my intern, Maggie Giles, I was working with her for probably like six months and she goes, So Blair, my dad wants to meet with you. And I was like, That's super sweet, okay? Because I mean, my dad is a goofball. He he'd probably like to meet my boss when I was intern. It turns out her dad is Pat Giles, who's a really like, world renowned, you know, like animator. And so I'm actually executive producing a cartoon that he's working on with me, with executive producers. I can't talk about it yet, but it's just so exciting. We'll probably see it come out at the end of the year, if not the beginning of 2023. Hmm. I'm just, like, living my wildest dreams.

Gemma Styles [00:12:17] That's also fun. I love that for you. So while we're talking about the different, I'm quite interested to know from your perspective, because we're talking about, you know, you mentioned Tumblr and I mean, we even mentioned MySpace right back when we got on the right. So now as someone who is putting out this kind of content in terms of reaching audiences and, you know, people who are looking to learn and are looking to educate themselves, do you see a big difference between audiences on the different platforms that you're working on at the moment?

Blair Imani [00:12:51] Oh, 100%. I think that on Tik Tok people need to weigh less context. People are happy to just pop onto your page and be like, okay, cool. So when I make my videos on Spider in seconds, sometimes I'll have two people or three people, but it's all me. So I clone myself using the different tools for the video recording apps. So on Tik Tok, a lot of people think I'm a twin and I'm actually talking to a different version of myself. It's not helped by the fact that I'm writing myself differently, so like my nose might look like a little bit different in like my head. I'll do my head scarves differently, my makeup ever so slightly different. Sometimes when I'm doing like a lesson like I did last fall, beauty standards and I, like, contoured my nose super heavy so people could see, like, that conversation. So there's, like, a conspiracy theory on TikTok that I'm a twin.

Gemma Styles [00:13:33] Amazing. Is necessary for really everything.

Blair Imani [00:13:36] There really is no but the funniest thing was I was just out at a car show with my dad in our local neighbourhood and the speech therapist there to really help my younger sister and help me. I used to have a lisp. She for some reason because she's been seeing my video, I thought that because I changed my name. My last name didn't include Imani, but she thought that Imani was one person and the other one is Blair. And so I was just like, Oh no, it's coming to real life and Miss Lords, or it thinks that I'm a twin. But anyway, so Ticktalk doesn't need as much context. They're also really keen on seeming smarter than everyone else, which I appreciate because I, you know, I used to be that I think I'm a lot more humble now, or at least I tried to be. I'm actively working on it, but I find I post something and people are like, Well, you forgot this and I have to not be defensive. I have to be like, Thank you for letting me know. Oh yeah, you get a gold star for the day on Instagram. People want to know who you are, what are your motivations? It's a lot more deep. I feel like people look way deeper into your soul when it comes to Instagram. You also have some people who will drive up your engagement just because you you restrict their account, but they're posting all types of like hate stuff. But it's like, you know what? If you're going to post six times great, it's great for the algorithm, but I'm gonna make sure nobody else can see it. Then you have Twitter. I'm completely off Twitter because again, it's just a cesspool of hate. Like when I got off Twitter, I noticed myself watching TV and seeing somebody out. That I didn't like on like the game show. And my instinct was to grab my phone and to tweet that I didn't like their outfit. And I'm like, okay, I don't even have Twitter anymore. Why can't that just be an inside thought? And why do I need to broadcast that to the world? Because I've been on the other side of that where I've Googled my name and I've Twittered my name and I'm like, Oh, no, this is a nightmare. And so I think that Twitter takes away that step for us of checking ourselves and like being in this kind of like larger social decorum to not act in us. Like, I think it really takes that filter away. YouTube. YouTube is great for people discovering stuff, but it is not great to be a woman or a person of colour or a queer person or anything on YouTube because you know people who are dedicated to being dicks. Then you have Reddit. It's funny when I post something on like I did a lesson on cultural appropriation and somebody thought that I was dissing a celebrity and I wasn't, and I didn't know who that celebrity was. But Reddit and Tumblr are quite like that, where people will be like, Oh, she made this video because this is happening and this is who she's calling out. And I'm like, you know, sometimes I do that on purpose, but other times I just think it's a good lesson. So I think they all have their niche. They all have their personality. Then you have Craigslist, and I don't think that you can post videos on there, but that's literally stayed the same since it was.

Gemma Styles [00:16:20] Just one constant in the landscape of Craigslist. Well, I mean, talking about there, you know, there was a little reference to maybe how you pick some topics sometimes. But in general, how do you go about, you know, deciding what? People need education on because I mean, I feel like even in the context of this podcast is kind of the whole idea of doing this podcast is to sort of platform and I get to speak to and learn from really interesting people and learn more about things that I would like to be more educated on. But I think that's a question that people have definitely asked me before, kind of how how do you decide what you're going to talk about, who you're going to talk to? I'd love to hear what your process is.

Blair Imani [00:17:04] So I have an amazing like, just like collaborator who's also like my manager and my creative director, Kat Wheeler, who like handles everything from scheduling to like thought processes and stuff. We'll brainstorm an idea, so I'll sit on the side of my counter, just sit on the other side and we'll just like kind of go back and forth and like brainstorm and be like, okay, now let's pretend to be the comment section. What holes are people going to throw in this to really like get ahead of like the same comment being posted again and again? I try to time it around holidays. Some of my best smarter in seconds I'll post like the day before a major event so like Thanksgiving in the US like I did a lesson with members of the Wampanoag, Chappaquiddick nation. And so those are the people who are actually who met the Pilgrims and who were caused harm by the Pilgrims. So I got in touch with some folks who are their descendants. And actually initially I was going to do that. I was just reaching out to different folks in the Native American community, and folks were like, Hey, Blair, you know, I'm Navajo. It doesn't really make sense for me being on the West Coast. I never you know, my ancestors never met with the pilgrims. Why don't you meet with people from there? And it was that on my own mental process of being like, Oh my gosh, those people still exist because the propaganda is so contrary to that. True. So why don't we like emphasise these are the people who met with the pilgrims. These are the people who have the truth to tell and then do it around the holiday to really inspire that. And I try to strike this balance of having experts so people who understand the history and know the history, but who also have the lived experience. So if I'm working with somebody who's an expert on gender and sexuality, I also would love to work with somebody who's an expert on gender and sexuality and is also trans or gender queer. Who has that lived experience? Mm hmm. Another thing I've been doing is this summer, I was going to do a whole series on body positivity, but I don't think it's very revolutionary for me to be somebody who is straight size, who fits into, you know, clothes size, you know, small, too large to do that by myself. So I put that on hold and I'm going to be working with Jamie Koroma. I'm actually going to be going to Dallas to work with her on that, just to make sure that, like I'm recognising where is my privilege, where can I be boosting people up and do I need to be speaking up on everything? So there's a whole process of that. With the back to school season. I did a lesson on dress codes. I did a lesson on grades and self-worth. We're going to be doing a lesson very soon on like a university. There's a whole conversation right now about loan forgiveness in the United States. But I have friends who paid a mortgage for like a house, but on their education and who are still doing so and they don't even use their degree programme. So what if we can have a smartphone seconds for those students who are like, No, actually I don't want to go to a four year university, I want to go to community college, I want to go to trade school and make them feel more normalised in the culture. So I try to have it be around these different cultural touchpoints and it works way better because people have to be searching up what you're going to be posting or it can flop, even if it's a really good lesson.

Gemma Styles [00:19:55] Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. That is the kind of how we are all consuming. Content, I guess isn't around. Everything storms up around a particular event or like you say, a holiday or something. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to us to tie those things in. So it seems to work really well for you.

Blair Imani [00:20:13] Thank you. I mean, there's there's so many that I want to do. Like I want to do a lesson on the idea of, like, manifest destiny when like the, you know, the the Americans in the U.S., they're like, oh, you should be from sea to shining sea. But I can't imagine a time where it's like it's going to do really well until next 4th of July. So I'm sitting on the left and I haven't filmed it yet. So sometimes I have to like really hold onto some gems, but it's worth it because I would hate to spend the 6 hours, 4 hours it takes to make a video and then it not go anywhere. And then you feel bad about myself instead of recognise it's the timing.

Gemma Styles [00:20:42] Yeah, absolutely. I'm quite I'm interested to know as well. So we did an episode earlier in the season on Echo Chambers and kind of that conversation about, you know, how.

Blair Imani [00:20:52] Do you reach.

Gemma Styles [00:20:52] People outside? Oh, thank you. I feel like as as a watcher of your videos, I make the assumption that it would be, you know, largely quite a liberal audience of your but make up your followers, for example. Is it easy for you to tell? How much you're kind of reaching beyond that echo chamber. Is it easy for you to tell when a particular video has kind of hit a different audience? Do you do you take that as a positive thing in general or is that much harder to deal with for you?

Blair Imani [00:21:26] So I guess the background to it is that so I used to work at Planned Parenthood and my job was in crisis communications. So my job was to find how the opposition was reporting on us or whether they were going to be protesting us and making our clinicians and workers lives. Hell. And I was you know, my job was to do that research and then also to like prep our like leaders on, like in the regional areas on how to talk about really difficult things like abortion in a conservative religious space. So I feel like I'm a pro at that. When we write smarter and seconds, Kat and I poke holes in it like we are in the cesspool of abortion, like we will poke so many holes in that lesson to where like it's almost like ironclad. And if there is something that people are going to bring up, we do it really intentionally. So I have called out celebrities in it like, you know, I never say their names because I think that we all know who we're talking about. And I'm not trying to, like, incite their stands, but I did a lesson where I talked about, you know, the celebrity who said nobody wants to work anymore, who's also like a billionaire, you know, and really like that kind of tone unawareness or that inappropriateness or beloved children's authors who say transphobic things quite like, you know, quite often. So instead of like saying the person's name, that's one thing that we do to try to be tactful about it, but still call out the behaviour and then never like say, Oh, that person's ugly or that person like, you know, never shame their body or anything because that gets away from like the actual substance of what they're doing, which is horrible. Yeah. So it's like still having that mutual respect for even people we don't like. I can tell when things get out of hand and one thing I really try to I pride myself on and be really intentional about is moderating my comments to make sure that if I post with somebody who is used to being posted on a bigger page and then getting a flurry of hate, that doesn't happen with me because I set boundaries. I try to curate the experience for my page, but recently I did a lesson with my dear friend Addison Rose Vincent, who is at Break the binary. I highly recommend you'll follow, especially if you're interested in just seeing people express gender fullness in this kind of world of like gender neutrality, feeling very collapsing into something broader and more expansive. And Addison's actually help helping you play on my hen party, as you all call it, in the U.K. bachelorette party, as we call it in the States. But we did a lesson on non-binary awareness. We did, too. And in the second one that we posted, it got posted on to a hate page. And that was really tough. I always try to set up Google Alerts and just call Addison or text Addison and say, Hey, friend, we got put on this page. I don't recommend you read it. It's super transphobic. They completely Misgendered Addison The whole time. Simultaneously, we were kind of coming to the conclusion that maybe it's good that we got posted there because those are the people who need to see that lesson, but also trying to be a steward of people's time, space and mental energy. Because like, for example, I don't get I'm not the first line of defence. So, you know, like I feel like saying first line of defence is so American, but I'm not like the first line of contact when people from like the general public reach out to my page, you can email me. Hello. Dot com. I have access to the inbox but my assistant sees it and that's better because if somebody sends me, you know, very graphic hate mail or something, then and Kat sees it, it's still going to affect Kat, but it's not Kat who's being attacked. It's me who's being attacked. So I don't need to do that. And so I try to set up these mechanisms to cocoon myself, not in a way where I'm like getting siloed and becoming in those echo chambers, but making sure that I'm not exposing myself to things that can prevent me from doing the work that I love doing or feeling joyous about the things that I love doing, and also my friends about that as well. So it's kind of this like matrix, like tightrope dance, like I don't know if you've seen that meme where he has like all those like lines and like those, like, you know, the pin cushions and everything. Yeah, I'm thinking about it really expansively and I try not to let it bug me down, but if I'm able to have all these mechanisms, then I can just do and I don't have to pause every, every second. And then it's quite fun to, you know, kind of like pretend and role play as these like hateful comments here is to try to make the lesson as streamlined as possible. But what I believe is that it's not my responsibility to teach everyone, because that's ridiculous. That'd be a ridiculous responsibility. My goal is to get the people who are just kind of like, I want to respect people, but how not the people who are like, I think everybody should go to hell. None of you are real people. You shouldn't have rights. Not my not my job. And I will try with somebody until they demonstrate that they don't want to learn. Even people who say things that might be out of pocket, like I did a lesson on reverse racism. And I had to redo that lesson somewhat because I wanted to make sure I wasn't like marginalising, like Irish, Welsh, you know, like Eastern European folks who would be considered white but who don't, you know, who still have a colonial history, you know, from like, you know, Britain. So how do I honour that? Kind of nuance. And there were still people in the comments who were like this, just like, you know, white privilege doesn't exist. I will even try with those folks to be like, let's explain. Let's talk about it. You know, for somebody who grew up with colonial rule from the U.K., who's Welsh, they might they might genuinely feel that way. So how do we, like, break that down? But if that person's like, because black people shouldn't be alive, then I'm like, okay, go back to it. I'm not dealing with.

Gemma Styles [00:26:34] Yeah, this is not the conversation.

Blair Imani [00:26:36] Exactly.

Gemma Styles [00:26:36] That's just not even a conversation, really.

Blair Imani [00:26:38] Period.

Gemma Styles [00:26:40] I mean, you're kind of kind of talking more about how. How you protect yourself as a human being rather than an entity online, I suppose. Which is which is how people can kind of see you as a platform. So. For you as a person, do you think it's important on your platform to show that you are just one person and kind of emphasise that sort of humanity? Like how do you try and weave that in?

Blair Imani [00:27:07] So this is a hilarious story. The first time I realised that that was really necessary was I like posted a picture of like my toes hanging on the edge of a squatty potty, which are very if you don't know those I highly recommend. Like, it's just like a lot.

Gemma Styles [00:27:22] Of time in the culture. I went every almost talking about a hell of a lot.

Blair Imani [00:27:25] Yeah. And so I highly recommend if you don't have those hashtag not sponsored. But if they wanted to reach out. And I was like just literally just sitting on the toilet posting like an Instagram story. And I was like, does anybody's legs ever fall asleep when they sit on the toilet for too long? And somebody messaged me back and was like, Yes, Queen. Talk about it. You are so vulnerable. You are so bright. And they were completely genuine. And they had here they were hero worshipping me because I was talking about like basic bodily functions and I was like, Oh my goodness, this person is putting me on a pedestal for talking about poop. Like, what the heck? And so I was like, I need to be way less polished, like I have to post without my makeup. And that also took a lot of pressure off me because trying to be completely like pristine every time you're online, it can feel very appropriate on one hand, because I can post something and like thousands of people can see it in, you know, 30 minutes. And I have to be responsible about that. So like, anytime I like, you know, have too many drinks with my friends, I always hide my phone for myself because I'm responsible. Yeah. But at the same time, like, I think it's okay to show a little bit of the messiness of life because, you know, it's really easy for us to put people on a pedestal or for people to say, oh, I discovered this account instead of like, oh, I found this person or I love this account or I love this resource. Instead of like now I love Blair's work, and I try to reframe that in a way that doesn't come across as ungrateful but is really just healthier because it's really, I think, multiple things. Like as an educator, somebody asked me when I did an interview, they're like, What makes you special and what makes you unique? And I was like, I think everybody is special, but I don't think that I'm more special than anybody else. Like, I don't think that I'm more equipped to do whatever. Like, I think that I have resources that other people might not have. And this person was like. BLAIR That's so sad. Why do you think so low of yourself? I don't think low myself, like I think highly of other people. And I think that as an educator, I'm a more effective educator when I remember and, you know, behave in a way that is mindful of the fact that anybody can learn. If I'm coming from the perspective that I know more and I don't know things that other people can't, then how am I going to be an effective educator? I have to approach it from everybody can learn. It's just a matter of how I get that across. And that's actually something I learnt from my mentor, my late mentor, Miss Eddie Roberts Joseph, who was like an 80 year old firecracker of a woman who would like cut down her own trees with a machete she kept on her back porch like just a fiery, fiery woman. And when I was in university, she was like, I like I entered with her. So I get like so excited about it. I interned with her at a museum at the Odell Williams now and then African-American Museum in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And we were teaching a group of third graders, and I was like, They're not going to understand the intricacies of this. And she's like, Well, if they don't understand, that's on their teacher, not on them. And I was like, Drag me.

Gemma Styles [00:30:19] Okay.

Blair Imani [00:30:20] So since then, I've been like really trying to be humble about it, but it's so necessary because when like when I post a blooper reel, then people can be like, Oh my gosh, she doesn't get it right on the first take. That's like, No, sometimes I don't get it right on the 20th take, but it's okay to show that. Have a bit of a laugh if it helps other people feel like, Oh no, I'm a work in progress too, because not everybody's going to post their work in progress. We usually just post our highlights.

Gemma Styles [00:30:43] Yeah.

Blair Imani [00:30:44] And so it's important to remember that we're all works in progress.

Gemma Styles [00:30:47] Yeah, absolutely. I mean. I guess taking it as an overview then. And even when we see the work that goes into it and the people behind it and all the rest of it, when we think about learning online and learning on social media particularly, what would you say if you could sum up a little bit? I kind of the strengths of that medium, but also the limitations? Or is there a limitation to how much we as consumers can learn on social media? Or do you think it really is quite boundless?

Blair Imani [00:31:24] I think it can be boundless, but I think that, you know, for example, the hard work of deconstructing our internalised racism shouldn't just happen on social media because it's really sacred and deep work. And it doesn't mean that we can't talk about things that are deep and sacred on social media, but that we have to give it the space and time to bring it into our lives. Mm hmm. And I think it is quite intimate. You know, when people watch a video of me, sometimes they're literally cupping their phone in the palm of their hands. They might be in bed, they might be on the loo, like, you know, whatever. But that is a really intimate part of their life. So how do I honour that? Mm hmm. But it is difficult to put all of that work that feels very like high frequency in the same space as, like, a cat eating a banana, you know, like that kind of feels. But I also like that duplicity because it should be as regular as that. So I'm conflicted on it in the short version of it. But when I have a Patreon series and I'm out and about to post my lessons on class and capitalism and socialism, and for that it's for people who want to take their learning into their own hands and figure out ways that they can, like, deconstruct these things. I'm posting a lesson soon where we're going to be analysing consent and different music lyrics and like comparing a song that kind of overrides consent and like it is really harmful and contributes to, you know, you know, sexual harassment culture. And then a lesson that is a song that's very much like affirming, like, no, do you want to do this? Should we go further or do you want to? And just figuring out how we can like kind of see that matrix throughout our lives and then also bring it into our lives in really intentional ways. I'm also doing things like I'm going to be hosting a yoga anti-racist Decolonial retreat in Costa Rica in 2023. Oh, wow. I'm trying to like do it in all types of different ways. I feel like I have a mission, but there's these different tools and everybody's going to want to pick up the same tool. So how do I make it available in the most ways possible that also interest and excite me because I never want to be doing anything that makes me miserable for too long unless it's taxes and we have to do those are I go to jail.

Gemma Styles [00:33:29] Every week my guest and I will be answering your questions on the first one comes in from Tenoch who asks what lessons can be drawn from the pandemic with regards to online learning? Is there a need for new tools or more materials maybe?

Blair Imani [00:33:43] Oh my goodness. Let me tell you that I had a job before the pandemic where if I had to work from home, I would be told, just take a vacation day, because they did not trust me to do the work from home. I think that the pandemic showed a lot of people, the limitlessness really of digital technology and digital learning. But I think it hasn't gone far enough. I think that we're still in the space where people think, okay, well, either my kid's going to play Fortnite or learn well, what if we use Fortnite to teach a lesson like we could do so many things with with education technology? My co-owner of Empower Beauty, the lipstick collection that I have, Christina macias, has a doctorate in education. Dr. Christina Macias And she's always talking about education, technology and the ways that it can be used. But I think the pandemic was a huge I mean, I think I know the pandemic was a huge force in people digitising their work, thinking about their work more expansively, and then also getting rid of these arbitrary things that were just really ablest and harmful, like forcing people to come into work everyday, things that were classes too. I remember that I spent so much of my salary just commuting to work at that job, whereas the people who were leadership didn't have to be at work every day and they're making more money so they could afford to commute. So why am I expected to? So there's a lot of like class. There's a lot of people I don't think there were done, but I think that it was kind of. You know, used as a cultural reset of sorts for people to evaluate why they're participating in things and how. And then so many people at the same time who were like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm shifting. Life is short. How do I fulfil myself in these different ways? But I think it's also kind of toxic to perceive something that was like super deadly to so many people as like a positive, wonderful thing. Yeah. So it's that balance of recognising that it was a shit time, but it's a time where human innovation shined.

Gemma Styles [00:35:35] Yeah, definitely. Okay. Next question is from Keira, who says, I'd love to know how I deal with the endless knowledge provided online. I oftentimes find myself very grateful for the opportunity to educate myself on topics that don't usually find a place in my daily life. But I also feel a lot of pressure to learn as much as possible about things that are important or I feel I should know more about. It's just that there are so many important and interesting things to learn about. I sometimes have a difficult time setting boundaries, and I feel a bit guilty for consciously deciding to, quote unquote, ignore something that's huge.

Blair Imani [00:36:11] I actually have a quote on my wall that says, Sometimes privilege looks like being able to ignore a crisis that others are dying from. And I have it quite high up. So it feels kind of like it looms over me sometimes. So when I don't want to watch the news, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. But I think that in the human condition and Christianity talks about this quite a bit of bearing witness to suffering. And I think that sometimes in the United States and in a lot of like, you know, euro colonial or Western nations, that is used as an excuse to become barred people with really horrible news. And so what I try to do is balance it. Like, if I watch this, is it going to. Prevent me from doing work. Like, well, I be so bogged down with the suffering of the human condition that I won't be able to like, create or leave my bed because I'll be so depressed and really recognising that limit for yourself. To be honest, I don't watch the news. I feel like I get I'm plenty informed and I have so many people around me who help me to be informed. I'm signed up to a lot of different listserv, so I know that I'm like staying up today on things that I really care about, but there are more things that I am way more like up to date on, like, for example, abortion laws in the United States. And that's something that I'm like on the pulse of at all times. But I try to do it in a way where I'm getting it directly from the people who are creating those materials, whether it's the Guttmacher Institute or the or Planned Parenthood action to make sure that I'm getting kind of like not a watered down version, but not a sensationalist version where I'm getting the facts with none of the drama and then also watching TV like 1 a.m.. I do watch the news on TV. I think the BBC is really sacred in a way where it still has its problems, but because it's less commercialised than in the US, I don't want to say not commercialised at all because everything seeps in, of course. But just seeing like kind of the different calibre of news like in the States, it's so much of a. A drama like it's so it's such a such a movie. Like, do we need to hear the same headline ten times a day, ten different ways from ten different experts from the guy who was next door. Like all these different things. Or do we need to hear from the people themselves and people who are most affected? So I think that it's healthy to set those boundaries, to tap into whether you are ignoring something or you can engage with something because of privilege and because of bias or because you're oversaturated. Other things like when there's a, you know, and I hate to say when, but in the United States, like when there is a mass shooting because it is so frequent, because, you know, lobbyists have made that such an inevitability with the gun lobbies. Do I need to watch the footage or the manifesto of the shooter? Absolutely not. I do not need to see people gunned down to see their bodies to care. I don't you know, there's flooding in Pakistan right now and in a lot of the world right now, I don't need to see people's homes being demolished by, you know, a brown tidal wave where I'm seeing people's lives raised. I can still care and I can still raise awareness of these subjects without traumatising people or desensitising my audience to that suffering. And so even when I see something that's horrible, I still have to stop and think, is it going to benefit anyone to see this? Because I'm not into shock culture. I'm not into like shocking people, into caring. I'm into the building literacy and critical thinking skills that allow people to take action and to alleviate suffering. And sometimes we can get to a place where we're so. You're gasping for air, trying to simply stay aware instead of actually being active. And I'm really aware of that. And so I think I do a good job. It's always a work in progress, but I think it's okay and normal not to be able to care about everything all the time, but really just to tap into that self-awareness, that self-reflection. Am I ignoring this because I care less? Am I biased here or am I just overtired? And how can I engage in a more healthy, sustained way that doesn't harm me or other people?

Gemma Styles [00:40:05] Yeah, I think that's a really important nuance. And I mean, that was even something you said earlier in the episode where you're kind of talking about you as an online educator. That's a big part of what you do. But even so. You said something about, you know, you're not going to know everything, like nobody knows everything. So I feel like there is a certain level of pressure that we may be put on ourselves to feel like we we have to be the most informed person in the room at all times. And I think there is some of social media that does breed that. And it's a tricky one because. I think it's it's a really good thing to aim to be, you know, as informed as you can. But I think keeping that, you know, as you said earlier, that sort of level of humility and knowing that you're never going to know everything. I think that might save your sanity a little bit and in the pursuit.

Blair Imani [00:40:58] Definitely. I think a great example is like talking about the the FBI Trump raid in Florida. My parents are quite liberal, obviously. They're my parents. I think that, like, it'd be fairly difficult to create me and not be but some people, conservative parents anyway. We were watching the news about that. It's some recognising we're watching the news to be hyped up, to yell at the TV. We're not watching this because it's going to change the world. I still know that Trump can't be president again, that we have to fight his re-election efforts. That's not going to change with me knowing what was on the redacted, you know, whatever warrant like. And so it's recognising how much do I need to know and how much am I being fed and what is it distracting me from? Hmm. And then from there, just paying attention to why you're engaging with things. Because sometimes we want to watch the TV, because we want to yell at people. We want to watch naked attraction with our, you know, just to feel, like, awkward, like it's whatever, but it's recognising why we're watching something. What is it actually doing and what is it preventing you from doing? And then sometimes watching it anyway. But at least you know how it's affecting you.

Gemma Styles [00:41:59] Yeah. Being more aware of your own motivations, I think that's a good point. Last question is from Carolina, who says, how do you suggest that we as consumers of information on the Internet share and receive information in a way that's best for reliability?

Blair Imani [00:42:16] Read the article. Read the article. So my mentor, Feminista Jones, has a whole whole line of words that says, Read the article. So few people will read the article and they'll just share something like a step further than that is when you read the article, click on the person who wrote it and see what their qualifications and motivations were for writing it. I actually have a smarter in seconds on finding credible sources, and so that basically explains all the different aspects of it. Who is funding it, what like how recent is it? And then also like does it need to be shared? Because there are some things that are just like so grim and horrible. Like there's a like I think some like I don't even want to use the specifics because this is so broadly applicable. So I'll speak more generally, but there will be a case where people share things widely and it's with this urgency and this terror. If I don't share this, people are going to this will happen. And then it turns out to not be true or it turns out to be sensationalised. And it even got worse because people were sharing it with that sense of urgency. And so when you feel that sense of urgency, it's really taking a step checking and being like, Hmm, does this need to be shared? For example, when somebody goes missing and or is abducted, like before you share that missing persons poster where you go to the comments and see if it's been updated and see if they've been found and then you decide to share it. It's a small is doing that and there's been so many times where I've seen that and I've been like, Oh, the person's found. But they don't take the post down because they're trying to update the people and then the person will still be classified as missing. It's like the same cycle. So apply that to like literally any news, news story and you can see how out of hand things can get or things are, you know, word of mouth or people will basically sometimes human beings consume media with the idea that everybody is evil and we have to find out how bad they are. And sometimes that's true, but other times they're just chillin and things get blown out of proportion. So taking that step, reading the article before you share it, and then sometimes recognising like, is this title even reflective? Is it worse for me to even share this? Or for me to find a different way to raise awareness that's more credible and it's going to take a longer time. But you will be like, that's literally the work that we have to do and what social media apps are trying to get us not to do.

Gemma Styles [00:44:25] Yeah, I think that's really good advice. Thank you very much for that. If you want to know about opportunities to send in questions for upcoming guests, then follow us on Instagram or Twitter at good influence us. And you can email the podcast at Good Influence podcast gmail.com. Before you go, I've got three things I ask every guest, and that's if listeners want to find out more about what we've been talking about today. Could you please recommend us? Something to read, something to listen to, and something to watch?

Blair Imani [00:44:51] Definitely. So my something to listen to because I love Britney Spears and Elton John is their new remix together. Hold Me Closer because it is fantastic. Yes, stream it forever. Listen on repeat something to read is a book by my friend Andre Henry, all the white friends I couldn't keep. And it's oh, it is like visceral. It's hope, heart fills and the struggle for black lives. It's it's just absolutely amazing and I think exhilarating for anyone, regardless of their kind of like political orientation or, you know, racial classification and then something to watch. It's not out yet, but it'll be out soon. It's called TIL, and it's a film about Emmett Till. I was able to screen it and be doing some work to promote the film, and I think it's really difficult to watch films that talk about black trauma, but they did this in such a tactful way that really talked about the family. I cried within the first 5 minutes. They really emphasise how Emmett Till was just a little boy who was a victim of racial violence. And I think it's going to be really a momentous film. So when that. Comes out for folks to add that to their to watch list. Yeah. So those are my my three recommends.

Gemma Styles [00:46:03] That's perfect. Thank you so much. And you also have a book called Read This to Get Smarter, which I will mention and drop in there. So if you are someone who, as we've been talking about, you know, is enjoying their education, whether that's on social media or listening to podcasts, if you want to learn more from Blair, you can do that, too. Thanks. Thank you for listening. And thank you for joining me for this last episode of Season three. If you enjoyed the episode and the season, in fact, I would love you to subscribe to the podcast on whichever platform you're using and if you've got an extra minute, you can leave a rating on a review. Those reviews make a big difference and help other people find the podcast. Keep an eye on our socials for new recordings I'll be doing for the upcoming fourth season, and I will see you very soon.